A HOF career should involve more than just one great year (with exigent circumstances, expansion weakened pitching) and two good years. [deleted] 9 yr. ago Should Roger Clemens Be Voted Into the Hall of Fame? We didnt mention the NL expansion in the article. He played at the same time as Frank Robinson, Henry Aaron, Al Kaline, Roberto Clemente, and Rocky Colavito, all of whom were better players. Aaron Judge is almost certainly on something, theyre just better about avoiding tests these days. Last Friday, the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum named baseball legend Roger Maris to their 10-person Golden Days Era Committee ballot. Then when it cuts to the close up, it looks like there's something in front of him. RSVP at Plays4pars@aol.com. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. Its a blessing and a curse to have a signature accomplishment as an athlete or an artist. Can this nonsensical direction this thread has taken please stop? Maris made his Major League debut on April 16, 1957, with the Cleveland Indians. Why has he been passed over? Holy Cow, he did it! This is manifestly not true. How We Ranked Baseballs Greatest Players, Election of Baines lowers the bar for the Baseball Hall of Fame, Golden Days Era Ballot for Baseball Hall of Fame, The 100 Greatest Right Fielders of All-Time >, VIDEO: Curt Flood Misplays Ball in Game 7 of 1968 World Series, VIDEO: Montreal Expos First Game and First Home Opener, from 1969, https://baseballegg.com/all-time-player-rankings/baseballs-greatest-right-fielders-of-all-time/, Mo Vaughns Exit From the Red Sox was not Pretty, In 1969, Experts Thought These Were the Greatest Third Basemen, VIDEO: Fred McGriffs First Home Run for Tampa Bay. If you watch the video it's obviously fake. Personally, I regard Maris still to be baseballs season Home Run Leader, excluding Bonds, McGuire and Sosa. Why Isn't Roger Maris in the Baseball Hall of Fame? Sure, everybody knows OF him but how is he not in the Hall? And he's probably relatively even on fame with Joe Jackson. With all due respect, I still think Mariss On August 26th in his 128th game Maris hit Number 51. To paraphrase: It does no good telling people that Henderson and Seaver were no good. I have wavered on this myself. Mickey Morgan| I disagree. In the end Maris prevailed and hit No. Roger Maris has no Hall of Fame case. All welcome. They cite the 12 seasons (six mediocre, six increasingly brilliant) by Sandy Koufax and the injury-shortened career of Dizzy Dean (nine full seasons and only one Maybe I'm the last person on the planet who didn't know this. Who needs time?. I do not agree with every decision the Veterans Committee makes but I am appreciative there is a mechanism to get guys in after the Voters have spoken for 10 years time. There were over 500 other baseball players during this expansion era and they did not hit 61 home runs. Or in life, for that matter. Magic The Gathering cards mostly since sports cards dumped in the 90s. Should Roger Maris finally be inducted in the Baseball Hall of Fame Im a huge yankee fan.. All my life. Not sure without looking it up. Thats a pretty unusual opinion. While Maris may not be a household name for younger MLB fans, Aaron Judge's quest for 62 home runs has shone a little on the former New York slugger. Citing proof and linking to articles I am all for. During the 1961 season, Maris hit 61 home runs for the New York Yankees, breaking Babe Ruth's single-season record of 60 home runs (set in 1927), a record that stood for 37 years. The Hall of Fame DOES have a records room which celebrates record holders and award winners, etc. Roger Maris Claim to fame: This October will mark the 50th anniversary of Roger Mariss 61st home run in the 1961 season. It broke Babe Ruths 34-year single season record and stood another 37 years until Mark McGwire hit 70 home runs in 1998, and it remains the defining achievement for Maris. Read21 hours ago | The Editorial Board, Article viewed iconAn icon to mark the viewed articles Already a subscriber? After 134 games, Maris remained at 51 home runs and Mantle at 48. Excellent player, both offensively and defensively, but not HofF. Pretty huge accomplishment. By the end of June he had hit 27 and by the end of July Maris had hit 40 home runs. WebRoger Maris was a really good baseball player who has only a small number of Hall of Fame years, including one that included a Hall of Fame accomplishment. Maris was elected MVP in 1960 because he led the league in RBI. As they say in the legal system: I'd rather see a guilty man go free than an innocent man go to prison. Nobody is going to mistake George Kell or Bill Mazeroski for Cal Ripken or Reggie Jackson. Kell and Maz both got in ~ it doesnt tarnish Cal or Reggie in the least. But he just misses the bar for me. At least it still clings to 3 figures, the same seems not to apply about most who have posted here. He won one Gold Glove, and in 1967 he drove in seven runs in the World Series. McMichael and Dan Hampton (a 2002 Hall of Fame inductee) formed one of the greatest defensive duos in NFL history, a unit that totaled 41.5 sacks from 1984-88. He was a quiet family type guy that wanted little to do with the press & I think that hurt him! Way outside, ball oneAnd the fans are starting to boo. For a brief period of time, about four seasons, Maris was one of the ten best outfielders in baseball. The NL did not expand to 10 teams until 1962. Roger was MVP in 1960 because Yankees finished 2nd in 1959 with Bauer and Woodling in RF and Roger helped Yankees win AL pennant again. Two players who were incredibly famous for a few short years. IMO Munson had a better case than Maris. By the way I have always thought of 1961 as the year of the home run. The 6-foot, 197-pound outfielder belted 39 homers (one behind Mantle's league-leading 40), led the AL with 112 RBI and a.581 slugging percentage, hit a career-high.283 and won his only Gold Glove. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. He appeared in seven World Series, winning three of them. The online betting stuff really bothers me too. I realize Barry Bonds isn't the most humble guy. I dont claim to be an expert but I am a huge baseball fan. He was great, but was unfortunately held back by the front office, bitter sportwriters fickle fans and injuries.He would have had lots of seasons like 1960 ( not 1961). the Angels for the Riverside Press-Enterprise in California and the Mariners for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. . Kirk Gibson: In a season that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened said Vin Scully as a hobbling Gibson circled the bases after hitting his game-winning home run for the Dodgers in the first game of the 1988 World Series. Maris would be a very unusual selection for the Hall of Fame. However, people questioned the legitimacy of his home run record due to the season expanding to 162 games, as opposed to the 154 games that Babe Ruth hit 60 in. A Yankees home jersey worn by Maris during the 1961 regular season is now a part of the Imagine that? Was it just his big lead in RBI to the extent of everything else? During his career Roger Maris never received the credit he deserved. That was why he got so many RBI opportunities, and why pitchers challenged him even when runners were on base. Even Yankee fans failed to embrace him; they instead saw him as a threat to their hero, Mickey Mantle, as well as to the legacy of Ruth. The guy was the best at his position for more than half his career. Why isn't Roger Maris in the Hall of Fame Should say North Dakota, sorry about the error. Ben Shpigel has covered the Mets for The Times since 2005. It's likely that nobody in baseball history hasn't cheated on this record. Roger Maris: Many still believe his 61 home runs in 1961 is still the single-season home run record. Your cynical speculation on what Judge is accomplishing is just conjecture. If you're committed to voting for a Dodger and won't vote for Messersmith because pitchers have their own award, what is the argument for voting for Garvey over Wynn? That was mostly because he batted behind Mickey Mantle, but Maris was named MVP in 1960. Readmore, The Mets maybe should, but most assuredly wont, defy all expectations and make a legitimate bid to lure Robinson Cano away from the Yankees.Readmore, The Yankees are waiting to hear whether Curtis Granderson will accept their qualifying offer, and set their outfield for 2014, or test the market and send the Yankees chasing another free agent. I'm sure it lead to his career being so short. Maris for the Hall. Nothing like that in MLB since I've been watching baseball. He was critical for 5 pennants and 2 world series for Yankees. WebDuring his career Roger Maris never received the credit he deserved. Roger Low, ball two. I think Burns says Maris wished he had never broken it because of the response from the public and probably other players too. Since it was established in 1936, the National Baseball Hall of Fame has amassed 333 elected members. Among those honored are some of the greatest MLB players to ever play. Yet not everyone makes it into the Hall of Fame, prompting outcries from fans. One hotly debated omission involves former New York Yankees great Roger Maris. A pitcher with a career batting average of .192! Ill gladly disagree with the author, he was not alive to enjoy what that did for baseball! Even if you werent as good as the man who played center field next to you. Even the stars benefited from expansion, which was rational reaction to the growth of the talent pool. The introverted outfielder dealt with such stress that his hair began to fall out. He doesn't have the number to be a hall of Roger Maris Does Roger Maris Belong in the Hall of Fame? - The New York He played for four different teams (Cleveland Indians, Kansas City Royals, New York Yankees and St. Louis Cardinals). Denny McClain: The last of the 30-game winners (20 wins is very rare now), he went 31-6 in 1968 to win the American League Cy Young Award for the Tigers. Pete Donovan is a Palm Desert resident and former Los Angeles Times sports reporter. A kid grabbed his hand as he turned past first - Maris shook hands and then did the same thing with third base coach Frank Crosetti as he turned past third base and headed home. the latest updates from spring training. I mean it's hard to choose him over Rudi or Bando, much less the likes of Jackson or Grich. Lets all return every book on Abraham Lincoln or new works on World War II, because the authors werent alive then. Maris two MVP seasons were part of a six-year stretch (1959-64) in which he produced 198 home runs, 549 RBIs and an .890 OPS (142 OPS+) over 807 games. I believe that Josh was referring to Right Field defensive play: Maris arrived a few years after Al.Kaline had already established himself as the American Leagues RightField defensive Gold Glove Champion.They were both all- time greats, defensively, but you would have had to knock out Al Kaline for Roger Maris to win the Gold Glove Award.Maris was very fast, tracked very well and had a great arm. I would not be shocked if either/both made it someday from the Veterans committee. 2021-08-12. By the end of his 12-year career, Maris went on to win three World Series Championships, two MVPs, and a Judge had something like 900 unique cards graded by PSA before he played a major league game. I have read books and watched movies such as 61* and others like The Mick. $ + tax Only 263 have made it into the Hall of Fame. WebThe only reason he still gets consideration is because of the 6 World Series he won with the Yanks because he was a phenomenal pitcher and post-season pitcher who played for one of the winningest dynasties in baseball history. I hate that Golden Gloves are just throw away facts when considering the HOF. He won the two MVPs, which means something, but heck so did Juan Gonzalez. Maris hit 58 homers in the first 154 games (the length of the schedule when Babe Ruth set the single-season record), and finished with 61. Mantle rebutted these attempts to divide the two. There are players who are not in the Hall of Fame and likely will not be anytime in the future but their significant singular achievements are more than worthy of their special place in baseball history. Nevertheless, from 1959 -.1962 his fellow American League players (and coaches, I believe ) chose him as an American League All-Star. Now, he doesnt even have that. If you can consider players like Barry Bonds and others who are accused of cheating and using peds and other drugs to get an advantage than you should put players Roger Maris and Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame without hesitation. Maris did not accomplish that. Its highly unlikely that Maris will be elected by this committee in December, but his career should be remembered for more than just his very high points. His career beyond '61 and '60 is relatively unremarkable, but to set a long standing record like that in a sport that has been recorded for so long is remarkable and enough to be enshrined. This also helped to counter the negative impact from the shift in the National League from smaller stadiums to the larger multi-purpose stadiums. Similarly, in the AL it's clear that the best performances were by pitchers (six of the top eight in WAR were pitchers), but Burroughs was still a very strange choice. However, the stories were not true. The number is really blurry. And they're standing up. Incidentally, my birthday is Mar15. . Nunez Impresses With Bat, if Not His Glove, Fantasy Focus: Mostly Lesser Known Keeper Targets, Yankees Set to Resume Cano Negotiations, With Sides Still Far Apart, Alderson Delivers More Laughs, but Few Definitive Answers, Some Options for Granderson and the Yankees. The Indians had a glut of outfielders in their organization and inexplicably ignored the 69 homers Maris hit in three seasons in their system. He would say later that Durante's generosity meant more to him than the media pressures and the catcalls from the pro-Ruth and pro-Mantle fans. Maris was a family man who played it straight on and off the field and treated the game with respect. It came down to the final three games of the 1961 season. Tyler Kepner has covered the Yankees for The New York Times since 2002. Maris pursuit enthralled a generation as he and teammate Mickey Mantle -- The M&M Boys -- spent a summer aiming for what was then considered to be an unbreakable mark. I thnk Roger should b in the Hall. setting a record does not warrant induction. You judge a player by the impact he had in his time. Please at least get your facts correct? Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence - Oscar Wilde. Dwight Evans.. Should Be In The Hall Of Fame. In 1999 the United States Postal Service issued a commemorative stamp honoring Roger Maris. There are numerous right fielders more deserving. Until the quality of recording improved and the introduction of the center field camera, practically all TV recordings of baseball give the appearance of a phantom ball - you can't see crap in these videos, it's all reactive like the trick play in "Little Big League". Nearly all my baseball knowledge comes from reading Beckett and trading sports cards when I was in junior high and high school. If anything, I think it strengthens the Hall by acknowledging the true single-season HR king. He really had little baseball left in him when he played his final games for the Cardinals in 1968. That's 40 years of technological advances between the two. The whole subject is really sadRoger Maris career got derailed.He got forced by the Yankees to pursue going for pulled home runs too much in 61.Then, after my fellownYankee Fans started booing him in 1962 he , I believe, doubled down on the pulling8 rather than being more of a BillyWilliams (Cubs) type of hitter which was more natural for him.Then, the injuries, finally the disabling one to the wrist at the age of 30. He would have been.better off if he had played for the Red Sox; he hit well at Fenway.Too bad. I'm not saying they shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame, but in my opinion, Roger Maris' contribution to baseball far exceeds all of theirs combined. If Joe Namath is in the Football HOF, then I believe Roger Maris should also be in the baseball HOF. Maris was the MVP that year and also won the award the Playing football for his high school team in North Dakota, Maris returned not one, not two, not three, but four kickoffs for touchdowns in a single game. Thats true. Roger Maris, seen here in the 1950s with the F-M Twins, would break Babe Ruth's home run record by hitting 61 in 1961 with the New York Yankees. WebHe had 4 very good seasons. In the movie The Natural, and I know this isn't a good source, they talk about how some reporters would write the stories on the games before the games were even played. Yes the Yankees are my favorite team but I will watch just about any team that I can get on TV. Roger Maris is not in the Hall of Fame : r/NYYankees Maris hit behind Bobby Richardson and Tony Kubek, and he had Mickey Mantle hitting behind him. Were Carew's hits, BA, and OBP enough to offset the fact that the Twins finished eight games out? In our list of the Top 100 Right Fielders of All-Time, he ranks 47th, sandwiched between Kirk Gibson and Kiki Cuyler, both of whom were (like Maris) excellent athletes, but not all-time legends. Roger Maris in the same way that the actor James Dean went fast around here. His 1961 season was the best of his career, and one of the best seasons of all time. In my opinion Roger Maris belongs in the Hall of fame. Or that Jose Molina or David Wells knows enough about baseball history to know who should get a plaque? I have no doubt that it if had been 1959, he would have hit 55 or 54 homers, or whatever. It's like the 1974 MVP races where there was no reason to vote for either winner. But I hate it when people make accusations against someones legacy. Clearly, Maris was a very good player as evidenced by his 1960 MVP. His strongest showing on the BBWAA ballot was in 1968, when he received 33.6 percent of the vote. You will be charged Hall of Fame The commissioner, Ford Frick, refused to If Kirby Puckett is a first ballot Hall of Famer, Maris deserves the nod from the Veteran's Committee. . But, on this day nearly all the reporters covering the story got the report off the wire. Baseball seemed offended that someone dared to beat Ruths unparalleled feat. He doesnt really have a long peak either. Another thing about his 61 homers, seeing as how you criticize the players who broke it because they used steroids: Maris hit 61 in an expansion year with two new teams in the league. Thanks for visiting the website. A Gold Glove recipient in 1960, Maris career is best remembered for hitting 61 home runs in 1961, shattering a single-season home run record previously held by Babe Ruth. There have been 19,969 men to play Major League Baseball. As they say in the legal system: I'd rather see a guilty man go free than an innocent man go to prison. Nobody is going to mistake George Kell or Bill Mazeroski for Cal Ripken or Reggie Jackson. Kell and Maz both got in ~ it doesnt tarnish Cal or Reggie in the least. @nam812 said: He would hit two home runs in his first game as a Yankee, finishing the season with 39 home runs, a .283 batting average, and an MVP award. But agreed with your thought, it would be an interesting thing to consider Barry Bonds seeing Maris in first. it is entirely possible that Maris cheated on his way to 61 as it certainly was a statistical anomaly for him. I would think this guy would be in. All 3 of these players are deserving! Maybe he doesn't have the greatest career stats. Read3 hours ago | Gerard Baker, Article viewed iconAn icon to mark the viewed articles "I hated to see the record broken," Phil Rizzuto said. The 23,154 roaring fans at Yankee Stadium were quieted. While the Yankees lost the World Series in seven games to the Pirates, Maris hit two homers. career falls short of Hall of Fame standards, but I am impressed by the knowledgeable fans who believe Maris belongs. In 1961, the defending American League Most Valuable Player won a second straight MVP. In the fourth inning, Maris came to bat again. There is no doubt he is 1 of my favorite Yankees. MANY players elected in the hall did not have the stats or years of modern day electees. Some fans disagreed with my saying Maris does not quite reach the standards of the Baseball Hall of Fame because of his modest batting average (.260), Roger Maris and Allie Reynolds, a pair of history-making contributors to separate Yankees championship squads, landed on the outside looking in as the Eras Committee welcomed six new members to the National Baseball Hall of Fame on Sunday. He was a very good player with a short-ish career containing two elite seasons (1960 and 1961, when he won the AL MVP both times and broke Babe Ruth's home run record during the latter season). Yes, clearly they got every fan in the stadium to react at the same time and be in on the scam. You may change your billing preferences at any time in the Customer Center or call I think what his critics are saying is that his body of work isnt sufficient to be a Hall of Famer. I just watched 61 the other day. I don't know, but that's the sort of conversation we should have had. This last is simply not true. The commissioner, Ford Frick, refused to attend any of the games during his historic chase, and even decided to place the ridiculous asterisk in the record book. He does not have the career milestones, and his short peak, while very good, was not excellent. You don't think Barry Bonds could have hit 73 in 2001 without cheating when Maris hit 61 in 1961? The hit total would be the lowest of all position players who did not play in the negro leagues. There are players in the HOF that didnt have anywhere near the impact on Baseball & the fan excitement that Roger did, I know b/c I was alive. Roger Maris, who had to be drained both physically and emotionally faced 24-year-old Red Sox right-hander Tracy Stallard. The Veteran's Committee elected former Pirates second baseman Bill Mazeroski in to the Hall. Reynolds pitched 10 dominant innings of one-run ball in Game 2, lifting New York to a 2-1 victory. His Wins Above Replacement in 1960 was 7.5, the highest in the American League. Similarly, at least in my opinion, Hank Aaron remains baseballs all time Home Run leader to this day, regardless of Bud Selig, who was complicit in the era of rampant steroid abuse. Mazeroski, like Maris, was a.260 career hitter, but hit just 138 home runs in 17 seasons and never finished higher than eighth in the MVP voting. Read2 hours ago | Michael Doran, Article viewed iconAn icon to mark the viewed articles There is pretty clearly no ball being thrown or hit in this video. Today, no one pitches back-to-back complete games! He probably could have stolen 20 bases a year, but his managers wanted their runners to hug the bag. In the NL my childhood hero, Orlando Cepeda hit .311 with 46 home runs and an astounding 142 RBIs. game in each of three others.). In his final 2 years, he aided the cardimals to 2 pennants and 1 world series. Read21 hours ago | Lance Morrow, Article viewed iconAn icon to mark the viewed articles However, Roger was still five games ahead of the record pace by Ruth, whose 51st HR didn't come until his 139th game. You could probably do the same with 90%+ of those in the hall. Similarly, at least in my opinion, Hank Aaron remains baseballs all time Home Run leader to this day, regardless of Bud Selig, who was complicit in the era of As Ive written elsewhere in this book, in the 1950s the Kansas City As were nothing more than a feeder team for the Yankees. But an infection forced the Mick out of the race in September, and he finished with 54 homers. He lives in Connecticut with his wife and their four children. Playing competitive games most of my life tells me that when people can cheat on stuff like this, they tend to cheat. I have always argued that Maris was essentially a better than average player, aside from a couple standout years, and not overall HOF material. Koufax was clearly one of the best arms in his prime, but his career was so brief, especially considering he didn't hit his stride until it was nearly halfway over! At least he was a Yankee. https://x-files.fandom.com/wiki/Babe_Ruth. Maris for hall is mainly sentiment. Thanks for reading and the comment, Bob. | @dallasactuary said: Yankees fans appreciate their team honoring Roger Maris and the 50th anniversary of his 61 in '61. This thread took a hard left turn since my last login. He also worked at The News Journal in Wilmington, Del., and for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Expert Reynolds also became the first pitcher in AL history to toss two no-hitters in the same season in 1951. Who is Roger Maris and is he in the Hall of Fame. Unfortunately both Roger and Mickey had retired before I was born. However, he had many skills that were hidden. Where have you gone, Red Barrett? The next season the American League added two teams and expanded the schedule to 162 games. Maris is a case that makes one think about what a Hall of Fame ought to be doing. His Yankee teammates formed a human wall in front of the dugout, refusing to let him enter. I wouldn't mind players getting into the HOF for extraordinary accomplishments.. Maris, Mattingly, Munson, Garvey, Dave Parker, Dale Murphy (another back to back MVP winner like Maris was), Keith Hernandez ~ all of them MVP's ~ all of them huge stars in their time. 500 homer's and 3k hits arent the only qualifications certainly. So, according to you only people who are alive at the time can comment on history? F Craig was a three-time Super Bowl champion and four-time Pro Bowl player. He did more in a few years than Baines, Simmons, and all other recent entries in the hall of good combined. @ElvisP said: Quick Links: I'd have to say that anybody who beats Babe Ruth at ANYTHING deserves to be in, particularly when you see the Hall voting right now excluding McGwire, Sosa and Bonds repeatedly. Pitching for the old Boston Braves in 1944, he threw a three-hit complete game shutout in 58 pitches. Gil Hodges, Roger Maris, Minnie Mioso among 10 on Hall of He was Yankee fans and baseball fans should be screaming loud now - perhaps the guys on the Veterans Committee will hear you. MLB Never Forgave Roger Maris for Beating Babe Ruth - WSJ Were gathering again for a baseball Hot Stove Luncheon (with a dash of NFL, too) on Thursday, Jan. 20 at 11:45 a.m. at Palm Valley Country Club in Palm Desert. But it was only a matter of time before the Yankees would yank him (sorry) from Kansas City. @CardGeek said: A Nobody, it seemed, wanted him to break Babe Ruth's record. The Hall of Fame Case for Roger Maris : r/baseball - Reddit WebRoger Maris deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because he made a permanent mark in baseball history. All rights reserved. Or what if the book wins 10% more often than he should, mysteriously. With a resume such as his, and the attention brought to Maris by Aaron Judge, has left many fans asking: why is Maris not in the Hall of Fame? Or my brothers friend. In the video the right fielder looks like he's wearing the number 9. The ball traveled just 360 feet and slammed into box l63D of section 33 into the sixth row of the lower deck in right field. The game took 1 hour, 15 minutes. If Aaron Judge eclipses him, itll be quite an Mariss career stats will continue to be evaluated by future veterans committees, so for those pulling for him, theres always a possibility. Likewise for Maris - Maris circling the bases and the guy emerging from the scramble holding up the ball are the only visible evidence of the homerun. Tony Cloninger:In 1966, the Milwaukee pitcher hit not one, but two grand slams in the same game! Pretty much the only thing that I've learned about baseball and sports cards in the past few years is that I don't want to be involved. PSE | I enjoyed reading it. He then returned in Game 4 to pitch 3 1/3 perfect innings of relief to record the save before New York went on to win the Series in Game 5.