The T-85 three-speed transmission was one result of that merger. However, neither compares to the Muncie in terms of strength. Now, lets explore GM transmission identification, the different methods, and more. 3925656 is the casting number for the saginaw used in 68-75 at least. I have four transmissions, which I need to identify, before I can proceed. The vacuum modulator is also a way of identifying GM transmission type after checking the pan and counting the bolts. You're going to find various combinations of main cases, tailshaft housings, and side covers coupled with variations inside of each case. Pure dumb luck will lead you to a completely unmolested Muncie. These grooves were cut into the input shaft so assembly line workers at the plant could easily identify which input shaft should be installed in a particular unit. Go here for Chevy Manual Transmission Identification. Number is located on side cover. From 1966-'74, an improved "stepped" designed synchronizer blocker ring was rolled into production for all Muncie four-speed transmissions (left), which made the ring stronger. Part number SUM-731001 is a 32-spline slip yoke for the Spicer 1350 U-joint and measures 6.250-inches long. be noiser (whines or howls almost like a blower, which is why it's called a "rock crusher") It was standard equipment on large displacement, high-torque engines, and is generally found in trucks, and full-size GM rear-wheel-drive cars. From 1967 on, the ID number contained the transmission type or plant prefix, Date (coded below), and a shift code. Casting Number Notes, 3831707 Early side cover; 1963 1965, 3884685 Early side cover; used with 3857584 tailshaft housing, 3950306 Late side cover no switches, 3952642 Late side cover with transmission controlled spark switch, 3952648 Late side cover with transmission controlled spark switch, 335308 Late side cover with neutral safety switch. These numbers can be found on the transmission case, and the first letter in this series of numbers is going to tell you exactly which Saginaw transmission you are looking at. Varying axle ratios were featured on the various gearbox and engine types per the below table. Gm manual transmission identification numbers. The M22 Rock Crusher 26-spline input shaft sports a wider gear for greater torque capacity. But the other numbers don't match the extension or sidecover casting numbers. Muncie Transmission Identification. Youll need a pictorial representation of these groups to identify the 4-speed transmission correctly. Transmisson Tech Info & Product Instructions. by three Numbers and ending in another Letter (or two). The Turbo 350 quickly became known for its strength, versatility, and compactness. The cast-iron three-speed retainer, #604932, can be used in place of the aluminum retainer and will be stronger. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Outside that, you can push in your clutch and hold the brake. If a car came with an axle ratio of 3.73 (or numerically higher), it usually came with a close-ratio transmission. Finding the ID tag can be extremely difficult on the Turbo 35o particularly because, its probably been lost. Once you identify the pan, count the number of pan bolts for confirmation. The data will help you to identify the transmission system. Please click Accept Cookies to continue to use the site. Add to quote; Share Only show this user. decode saginaw 4-speed | Team Camaro Tech Many GM trannys had the VIN stamped on the maincase on the flange where it attaches to the tailshaft, but some of the later Saginaws had a pad machined into the case just for stamping the number. In 1974, the two-speed box then went to the great scrap heap in the sky. While casting numbers are a definite guideline for identification, a quick, somewhat accurate way to quickly identify Muncie transmissions involves the input shafts. X3845157 GM. Besides the transmission identification, it also helps to figure out which options was the car ordered with by using a VIN decoder tool. He tells us both the M20 wide-ratio and M21 close-ratio transmissions were first offered in 1963. For example, a GM vehicle from before 1967 has an ID tag that looks like C123N. The two transmission systems manual and automatic, have different working principles. PDF How to Identify Your Transmission Engine Identification - LMCTruck.com The bearing bore size was also one year only with a #6207-style input shaft bearing, according to Cangialosi. Guide to Muncie M20, M21, and M22 Four-Speed Transmissions Each number in the 17-digit VIN represents specific information about a vehicle. A typical Saginaw assembly date stamp would be S313 indicating Saginaw trans produced March 13. Prior to 1967, transmission ID numbers contained the plant prefix code, month and date of production (expressed numerically), and a shift code (D = Day, N = Night). We'll send you the most interesting Chevy Hardcore articles, news, car features, and videos every week. This decreased helix angle of the gear not only created a stronger gear set, but it also produced a substantial amount of gear whine which is highly noticeable when driving the car. a usually four digit letter/number combination separated like this: X XX X. They are notoriously Weve sourced more than one Saginaw from Vegas in junkyards. Some GM brand models even have different transmission pan shapes and transmission types for different years. Main case#3925656 Extension#3925658 Side cover#6261886 also has a date 11-13-78 or 11-13-70 hard to make out . There are a couple of different debates that typically occur when a bunch of car guys get together. The casting number 3925660 denotes this as a 1968 1970 Muncie with a 1-inch cluster shaft. JavaScript is disabled. Input the VIN in a decoder and search. His passion for performance got him noticed by many locals, and he began helping them modify their vehicles. On the THM400 the VIN is stamped on a machined surface just above the pan on the drivers side. With an old GM 4-speed manual, you have to observe the transmission system side profile. 4L60 means 4 forward speeds, L = longitudily mounted (rear wheel drive). However, classic cars usually have manual transmissions. The code interpretation is (Cleaveland Powerglide, January 23rd, Night shift). The best way to ID the transmission is to count teeth. All rights reserved. hey Bob .I wish I could help out with your numbers on the trannys. Search transmissions by vehicle's VIN, License Plate, or Year/Make/Model information. While the M21 and M22 did have the same gear ratios, the M22 did utilize a cluster gear with the gear teeth having different tooth angles. The standard 10-spline input shaft found its way into new Muncie M20 and M21 transmissions from 1971-'74. The manual 3-speed transmission was standard fare for most of the Chevelle lineup from 1964 thru 1972. (C: Chevrolet, D: 327, 68: 1968, 315953: sequential production number), Serial number stamped on the case, above the oil pan, driver side: After 1967, GM switched things up and changed the code structure. Use the shifter to shift gears and note the number of times it shifts. 4. The M22 Rock Crusher used a gearset that features less of an angled-tooth gearing (right). 9. And keep in mind that not all will sport these grooves. GM Turbo 350 and 350C (TH350 Transmission) 3 Speed Transmission. than other boxes. Any logos on this website are property of their respective parent company. This is a large reason why some guys will not rely on transmission identification by the input shaft grooves. Like Cobalt said, it is very easy to mistake a 6 for an 8 in these castings. The Muncie was used in all high performance applications until the Borg-Warner Second Design Super T-10 began replacing it in 1974. The easiest way of knowing your GM transmission is by using a VIN decoder. (on manual trans). Before you here are the basics of Muncie M20, M21, and M22 four-speed transmissions. Remove the side cover and forks for a look at the geartrain. Hopefully, this guide can help you decipher what gearbox you have located if youre in need of a Chevy four speed, or if you are fortunate enough to happen across one stashed away in a barn somewhere. Anything after that time period will say US Patent No 3088336. 1993 and Newer (4L60E), 1980-1991 (AOD) On the Turbo 350, the VIN will be stamped on either the drivers side housing (near the shifter), on the right side of the housing just above the pan, or on a boss behind the bell housing flange on the passenger side of the transmission. There is no real performance potential in the smaller 4.3 version, and it should be avoided or replaced with the larger LT1/LT45.7L engine if high performance is the goal. A=M20 B=M21, C=M22). Before using any method to find your transmission type, you should find out if its a manual or automatic transmission. GM 8. Example: 19N500001. This was used in A-body and F-body cars and Corvettes into the early 80s. First, you must check whether its a manual or automatic transmission. Enjoy the forum? Set up the wheel chocks behind the tires so theyre firmly on the ground. For example, replacing a Powerglide with a Turbo 350 is an easy swap. The M-21 has a higher pitch angle on its gear teeth. The Muncie four-speed, like the T-10, is a side-loading transmission. 2001 - 2022 Monster Transmission and Performance, All Rights Reserved. See partial VIN stamped on housing as well as the date code on the fluid pan. Some exceptions include the 1970 with either the SS396 or SS454, the 1971 and 1972 SS with the 454 engine where the H.D. When it comes to transmissions, no other company provides this level of commitment to their clients. On the left is the M20 countershaft and 10-spline input shaft. GM Turbo 200 and 200C: 3 Speed Transmission. Manual Trans Reference GM 3, 4, 5 and 6 speeds V24 How to identify chevrolet gmc manual transmissions Use the following information to compare physical description of your Chevrolet or GMC manual transmission in order to identify what model transmission is in your vehicle. The Turbo 350 transmission was prevalent in nearly all GM, rear-wheel-drive cars and trucks through 1984. Summit Racing Equipment inventories all kinds of cast-aluminum and steel bellhousings for the Muncie. A manual transmission requires the driver to switch gears manually. The Borg Warner has a 9 bolt cover. GM 700R4 (4L60) not 4L60E . Notice: Any comments posted herein do not necessarily reflect the official position of the VCCA. Use the following information to compare physical description of your Chevrolet or GMC manual transmission in order to identify what model transmission is, MySpace !function(d,s,id){var js,fjs=d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0];if(!d.getElementById(id)){js=d.createElement(s);js.id=id;js.src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js";fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js,fjs);}}(document,"script","twitter-wjs"); Generally used in straight and V6 and small block engines. The Saginaw four-speed box is quite similar to both the T-10 and Muncie four-speed transmissions. There is no difference other than the name. According to Paul Cangialosi, Muncie transmission historian, technician, and author of Muncie 4-Speed Transmissions: How to rebuild and modify, the Muncie four-speed transmission has its roots back to 1935 and the U.S. patent number 3,088,336 along with an engineer named James W. Fodrea. The 3-speeds were just as beefy and robust as their 4-speed counterparts. Need a little help in the ID of a GM 3 speed trans I picked up. The iconic Powerglide automatic transmission has Powerglide printed on its transmission pan. General Motors has produced a myriad of versions of its fabled automatic transmissions over the years, although three models make up the bulk of pre-ECM GM slushboxes; the. fileslib. The muncie reverse lever is in the extention housing, and the cover has 7 bolts. NovaResource - Nova Transmission Codes . You cant simply look at your classic car and identify the type of transmission it uses. 2023 Power Automedia. The constants in decoding the trans ID number are the date the transmission was produced. box FWIW. The NHTSA has some VIN check tools that can assist in identifying transmission types. 18L165790 Due to this, the box tends to The best way to identify a GM automatic transmission is by observing the transmission pan. Did you know that there are various models that were used in various cars? GM Transmission ID Guide: Powerglide, Turbo 350, And Turbo 400 It is identified easiest by its 375-THM designation cast in the underside of the tail housing. When introduced in upper-level Chevrolet models in 1950, the Powerglide represented the first automatic transmission offered by the Big Three. The Muncie utilized seven different input shafts. Most transmissions will have a "source serial number" (chassis vin) usually found close to the transmission code. Muncie M62/M64 3-speed longitudinal transmission made by GM Muncie SM420 transmission 4-speed manual used up to 1967, very similar to sm 465 except small changes to gear ratios and location of reverse. Muncie transmissions from 1971-'74 have the larger 32-spline output shaft. The transmission codes are found on the Protect-O-Plate and in the following locations: . Transmissions - Tripod Check through the information for your transmission identification. numbers here that I can prove, so this is a short list. Turbo 400 transmissions were partial VIN stamped either above the pan rail on the drivers side (very difficult to see with the exhaust system installed) or on the drivers side of the bell housing as indicated in the picture. Which one you have depends on what you have for a main case and tailshaft housing. How To Identify Transmission By Vin - MicDot Examine the input and output shafts to see if you've found the box you want. Last edited: Dec 16, 2012. . The visible difference between manual and automatic cars is the third pedal, called a clutch. On the Turbo 400, the VIN is stamped on a machined surface just above the pan on the drivers side. There are no members with birthdays on this day. The plant code was a prefix, while the production date had a numerical value. The cookie settings on this website are set to 'allow all cookies' to give you the very best experience. Please check your browser settings or contact your system administrator. SECOND TRANSMISSION. different casting number, which is 10168588. The 1963-'65 M20 input shaft will not have grooves. 8. The number of bolts fastened to the pan is a way of being sure of the transmission system. This is a 4 speed, overdrive unit. They created a standardized naming system across the product line and changed the name of the Turbo 400 to 3L80. The transmission pan is one of the most precise methods of identifying a transmission. On the THM700-R4 the VIN is either stamped onto a boss behind the bellhousing flange on the passenger side, just above the pan on the drivers side, or just behind the governor cover, stamped vertically where the case meets the tailshaft housing. Knowledge of your cars transmission system is helpful during repairs and car restoration projects. Transmissions have RPO numbers, usually beginning with "M". Cangialosi tells us all M20 and M21 transmissions were produced with both 10- and 26-spline input shafts. Starting with the 1966 models, the wide ratio versions got two rings around the input shaft, and the M22 input shaft had no rings and looks like a 1963 through 1965 wide-ratio input shaft. The Muncie was originally a stronger alternative to the T-10 and Super T-10 because it could take the torque. The guys at Anaheim Gear tell us there are seven total Muncie input shaft options. However, finding one of these transmissions now at a swap meet or salvage yard is getting harder and harder. When repairing or restoring your Chevrolet car or truck, identifying the transmission youre running is a key element to avoid the automotive version of quicksand. Pre-67 Example: C213N (C = Cleveland Powerglide, February 13, Night Shift) Performance parts such as Hurst shifters were just as readily available for 3-speeds as with 4-speeds. Turbo 400 is the biggest, Turbo 350s and Powerglides smaller. Transmission I. D. | Classic Parts Talk When properly identifying a Saginaw transmission, the casting numbers are a surefire way to know for certain what youre looking at. Yes, you can tell what type of transmission from a VIN number. The source serial number contains additional information such as model year, division identification number, manufacturing plant, and production sequence. This number will contain a division identification number, the model year, and the assembly plant and production sequence (last six digits) of the vehicle identification number (VIN) stamped onto the transmission. Clean the area thoroughly and use a nice bright Not only are the Saginaw and Borg Warner side cover and tail housings constructed of different materials, but the reverse shifter arm of a Saginaw is on the side cover while the T10 is located on the tail housing. The Powerglide was Chevrolets main automatic transmission through the mid-1970s. thoughts? Generally found in Chevy & GM trucks, cadilacs and large displacement engined, full size GM rear wheel drive cars. Generally able to handle up to 400 foot pounds of torque. Transmission block casting number R 7 T 28 GM number 3890564 Martinius. However, this method requires extensive knowledge of the oil pans. You can get a guide or chart to help you place your transmission pan. Whats The Reason Enthusiasts Cant Get, Yes I Am A Dinosaur, And Why I Feel Electric Cars, Step-By-Step Birth Of A QA1 Adjustable Racing Shock, Readers Rig: Sterling Diesels Duramax-Powered C10, What I Learned Today With Jeff Smith Ensuring Wrist Pin Clearance, Corvette Enthusiasts Use Media To Share Z06 Delivery, Fenix Is A Next-Gen 69 Camaro With 1,180 Horsepower, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop Shop, Moroso Anti-Roll Kit Is The Right Tool For The Dragstrip, Near where the shift linkage attaches to the body, Just above the housing on the right side of the pan, On the passenger side on a flange by the bell housing. Others have a tag rivited to the case. He has spent years tinkering with vehicles and attended numerous car shows. There is also a fine-tooth 26-spline input shaft employed from 1971-'74. If you have looked very carefully and find no numbers there, chances are your block is classified as a Replacement Block